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**Rocky** · December 8, 2014, 02:16 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Yes - WDS includes the C compilers - whether you get that on equipment sold on Ebay or not is another matter. Is the seller including the licenses as part of the sale? If they aren't you will have to purchase the licences from IBM separately. The seller may be (and likely are) transferring the licenses to newer hardware and just selling off the hardware.

**chris_hird** · December 8, 2014, 04:15 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

If you are doing development from home on a remote hosted LPAR you still need to have access to RDi or something similar (read license)? You could use the SEU option but to be perfectly honest I hate it especially for free form languages. The speed of your internet should not be an issue with SEU, when I travel and have to do code fix ups the access is still acceptable because of the low content of the 5250 stream. Even RDi is acceptable although not ideal, most of the transfer is the content of the file so keeping files small is a good rule to make (lots of modules :-)) making the file transfer as small as possible. Glad you sorted out access, getting an old 520 may seem OK, but when you look at the issues with SWMA and the performance of the older systems you could soon become pretty fed up with what you have. I keep up with the technology as much as I can because I need to check out the latest and greatest IBM i offers, just keeping my finger on the pulse of what it can do makes my days go faster and eyes widen every time (and I know nothing!).

Chris...

**thegman999** · December 8, 2014, 05:14 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Thanks Chris and Rocky,
I was kind of hoping that the WDS licenses would be tied to the hardware like the OS is. Anyway, I've manged to buy a used i515, which is pretty much the only decent value machine I've been able to find in Australia. It was a bit of a gamble, I don't really know what it comes with and what it does not right now. However, I've got a contact at IBM who thinks I can get a decent deal on compilers.

Software licensing may well end up making me regret this purchase, but I think performance will be fine for me, it's just me, compiling C, and I was doing that on a 9401/150, and sure it was slow, but it was good enough for me.

I'm just hoping now the IBM Australia is not going to through any roadblocks in the way in terms of licensing.

Cheers

Garry

**Scott Klement** · December 8, 2014, 06:33 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Not sure that I'd buy a 520 at this point. If you're going to buy an outdated piece of hardware, i'd go for the 515, which is MUCH faster than the 520, and I expect the licenssing would be cheaper for a single user. (520 is priced by the machine, whereas 515 is priced by the user... user-based pricing should be cheaper when you only have one user.)

But, in either case, the Power5 line (which includes both the 520 and the 515) cannot run the latest version of the IBM i operating system (V7R2) which might be why you're starting to see these machines pop up relatively cheap -- but it also means they are nearing the end of their lives and you can't run the latest & greatest tools on them... so that's something to consider.

**thegman999** · December 8, 2014, 07:29 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Hi Scott,
Well, I've bought a 515 now, and to be honest, I'm not bothered about latest and greatest versions. I'm using a timeshare right now with V5R3 and I'd happily have it as my own machine. As a developer I'd obviously like to be on V7R2, but at the same time, I know with the pricing of IBM i stuff, I'm lucky to get anything usable at all.

I am just an individual developer, and I just can't justify the outlay for a modern 720 or something, much as I'd like one.

My needs are basic, all I truly need is a machine and a C compiler, I can work around everything else.

**chris_hird** · December 10, 2014, 08:08 AM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

I would definitely join Partnerworld, you should get 70% off the price of the software (Canada anyhow so you may get better) SWMA is also discounted in some regions at 70% (NOT Canada!!!) I did read somewhere recently that IBM gave away the licensing to someone who just wanted to play with the OS, but if you are looking at commercial use then that makes things different. Partnerworld has a few requirements to get the membership and discounts but they are not all that bad.. I only code in C so its nice to see someone else who is looking at developing using the language on IBM i. The 515 is a pretty solid box and certainly enough to manage compiling programs on, I have a 515 which I use for testing now but was my main development box for a couple of years. Make sure you add memory to the max and fill the drive bays with disk to get the best performance. I used to compile my products in about 30 minutes from code to packaged application on the 515, now it takes about 10 minutes on the new Power 7+ and its a lot more complex.

If you need any help let me know and good coding..

Chris...

**thegman999** · December 10, 2014, 04:31 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Thanks Chris, guess a the moment it'll be a matter of waiting for the 515 to show up, and then I can contact IBM about getting OS and compilers on it. The seller did not know too much about it, so bit of a gamble, but it was either that or import from the states, at significantly greater expense.

I will report back on how I go, to be honest, if I end up with a 515 I can compile C on, I think I'll scarcely be able to believe it..

Garry

**tomliotta** · December 10, 2014, 06:36 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

For perhaps most purposes, owning a box that runs i 6.1 could be sufficient for a (3rd-party) developer. Much 3rd-party software created on i 7.1 or 7.2 needs to be compiled back to at least i 6.1 anyway, and it's certainly not unheard of to compile for an even older release. An additional remote account for higher releases might be sufficient if only some specialized functions for a higher release must be developed.

For general learning of IBM i concepts, i 6.1 could be more than enough. There is so much to learn that it possibly won't be exhausted for a long time. And fortunately almost everything will be applicable for a while into the future.

When cost is the biggest consideration for an individual, it might be easy to decide. A model 515 at i 6.1 can be a great little system. It can support i 7.1, so that helps with some added system knowledge about upgrades as well as some newer features of the OS. Once at i 7.1, it can give value for at least a few more years.

**thegman999** · December 10, 2014, 06:50 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Hi Tom,
Right now I'm using a V5R3 timeshare, and honestly, it's enough for me other than of course, the lack of QSECOFR access and being able to install PHP, stuff like that. Perhaps I'll get some customers (hopefully!) who will need assistance on 6.1 or 7.1 specific features, but I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

The last time I owned my own machine was a 9401/150, and I loved it, had all the compilers and it worked great. If the 515 can replicate that experience but be faster, that's all I want. It's been an off/on battle for years for me to get a usable, licensed AS/400 again, I just hope IBM does not price me out of compilers at the last hurdle.

Garry

**Rocky** · December 11, 2014, 09:59 AM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Originally posted by thegman999 View Post

Thanks Chris and Rocky,
I was kind of hoping that the WDS licenses would be tied to the hardware like the OS is. Anyway, I've manged to buy a used i515, which is pretty much the only decent value machine I've been able to find in Australia. It was a bit of a gamble, I don't really know what it comes with and what it does not right now. However, I've got a contact at IBM who thinks I can get a decent deal on compilers.

Software licensing may well end up making me regret this purchase, but I think performance will be fine for me, it's just me, compiling C, and I was doing that on a 9401/150, and sure it was slow, but it was good enough for me.

I'm just hoping now the IBM Australia is not going to through any roadblocks in the way in terms of licensing.

Cheers

Garry

The OS isn't even tied to the hardware - I transferred my OS licenses across to our new machine - saved us about $50,000...

**thegman999** · December 11, 2014, 04:00 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Hi Rocky,
Right, I thought the OS was tied, presumably once I have the machine, I can give IBM the serial no. and they'll tell me if there is an OS licensed on it? I don't mind spending a little money on this, as I got the hardware a lot cheaper than I expected.

I get the feeling I still have a bit of a gruelling path ahead of me, but I'm closer than I've ever been to having a iSeries developer box again!

Garry

**tomliotta** · December 11, 2014, 06:37 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Somewhere back at V5R1/2/or 3, IBM licensing changed. After that, the OS license could (would?) go along with the hardware. I bought a 515 with i 6.1 just over two years ago and there was no added cost for the OS. I got SWMA & hardware support with just the normal IBM confusion over getting all transfers logged in their database.

However, AFAIK, non-OS licenses are not legally transferable. If you want compilers, iSeries Access, SQL DK, etc., they will be extra.

At least, that's what I would expect in general. There might be some "Express bundles" kinds of systems that keep everything together.

But also, when I bought my 515, V5R4 was already unavailable. The only allowed OS levels were i 6.1 and above. By now, i 6.1 might no longer be allowed (apparently by IBM agreements with resellers). That refers to systems that are post-V5Rx (whatever that limit was that I mentioned above). Old systems might still be available with old releases, but I have no good info on what's possible for those and there seems little reason for you to care.

The point I'd like to make is that your best direction right now would be to make inquiries about some used systems at a couple resellers. It gets confusing enough for individuals in the marketplace. Many of us have some experience, but we have different experiences at different times under different IBM rules. (And different resellers might have special deals. Who knows?)

Be fairly open with resellers about what you're trying to learn (without clearly stating that you're only interested in rock-bottom cost). Many of them will be fairly open in return about costs you can expect. Get responses from more than just one, and tell them you're shopping. That's really the best way to get useful info.

**thegman999** · December 11, 2014, 06:55 PM

Re: i5 Express Editions, get the compilers?

Hi Tom,
Right, I think I get it, for better or for worse, I've already ordered a 515, it was by far the cheapest I could find, only downside is the seller didn't know anything about it, only that it booted. I think when it turns up, I'll just have to throw myself at the mercy of the IBM Business Partner network.

I've got at least one contact here in Australia who seems helpful enough, so now it's a matter of waiting for the box to arrive and see what's what.

Cheers

Garry

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