Announcement

**kpmac** · March 28, 2006, 01:00 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

The answer. It really all depends what you are looking for. Webfacing will provide you with functional web based applications that look like 5250 screens. If you are looking for a web front end that is slick and really sings. I wouldnt use webfacing. However, if you are just looking to to get a functional app out on the internet than it might be the way to go.

We used websphere to webface our entire ERP application and I can honestly say that I hate it. The performance is terrible and it drives me nuts how the application is layed out on the screen. The beauty of html is that you can use the entire window as well as the scroll bars to fit a suitable amount of content on your canvas. With websphere you have a 256 char 5250 screen in an html format.

We are currently exploring other technologies to provide us with the same functionality.

I hope this helps.

**itp** · March 28, 2006, 01:06 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

I did some work with it 2-3 years ago. Then I found it very clunky and behaves erratically, especially when there is a heavy load on the CPU . Plus, it only works with Microsoft IE (such irony) which is becoming a bigger disadvantage as Firefox and other browsers gain market share. At heart Webfacing is simple a fancy 5250 emulator, so there is inevitably a culture clash between 5250 and the web. (F24, escape, field exit keys ect) Although it easily deploys to the WWW, I have not seen more than a handful of companies that use it.

On the plus side, it deploys very quickly and with a bit of CSS tuning,
can look very funky. Once you figure out the websphere environment,
add much RAM to your PC and get through latest PTF issues, you
convert and deploy and get screens up and running quickly. If you have
to do any tweaking or customization, it will become a late night crash
course in HTML, DHTML, CSS, XML, JS and Java deployments. (This may or
may not be considered a good feature)

It is a reasonable solution for getting applications to captive, occasional users (like field sale staff) out to remote locations, but I would go crazy as a user if I had to use it all day.

I have had somewhat better experience with IBM's HATSLE.

Just for fun, google the next line to catch some installations on the web:

"Links for Program" "Launch in a new browser window"

I have not touched it for over 2 years, so some of these issues have
been resolved, plus IBM is supposed to be melding HATS and Webfacing into one product soon.

**goldstar** · March 28, 2006, 01:35 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

sorry but... what's the difference between HATS LE and Websphere's webfacing?

I'm reading http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserve...access/hatsle/ and for a while I thought I was reading some info about Websphere's webfacing

~Goldstar

**arrow483** · March 28, 2006, 02:03 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

With my limited exposure,

Webfacing provides a "conversion" to html, which you can then modify with html tools. Source DDS is required for the initial pass.

HATS/LE is a screen scaper that converts 5250 screens on the fly. Does allow browser access and very limited customization.

HATS is a more "robust" version of HATS/LE. Again, no programming changes are needed, becuase 5250 is converted on the fly. Can do some graphing and screen-to-multi-screen and multi-to-single screen stuff.

HATS products have the advantage that you don't need the source code, and could front end any package, even purchased ones.

Watch out for that word "Websphere". It a brand name used for many products.

**JonBoy** · March 31, 2006, 12:45 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

Just to add to the comments here.

The latest version of WDSc includes HATS alongside WebFacing, so you don't have to make an either/or decision.

**goldstar** · April 6, 2006, 02:05 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

OK OK.

And anything to say about interactive resources using webfacing?
I've heard that no interactive use with webfacing because every petition against application server reaches the AS400 using Batch...

That's true?

**JonBoy** · April 6, 2006, 02:25 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

WebFacing does not use interactive resource if you are using current hardware - Anything that can run V5R4 is probably in that category but I don't do hardware ;-)

Not sure about HATS.

For most small shops the issue with WebFacing is one of horsepower (do you have enough) or resource (do you have the skills to keep WebSphere alive and happy). The alternatives such as Axes do not use interactive. Nor do tools like Icebreak, iGo, RPGsp, RSP, Lansa, CGIDEV2, etc. etc.

**goldstar** · April 6, 2006, 02:36 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

I'm in V5R2 in a Type 800 AS400 so.... *goldstar crosses fingers*

In your post, you talk about other alternatives such as Axes, and so on.

Any good/bad experience with them?

**JonBoy** · April 6, 2006, 06:03 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

I have "played" with all of these tools but not "earned my living" with any of them. We wrote a series of articles under the title "From Green to Dream" which you can find on the iSeries magazine's web site. It covers where we see most of these (and other) tools fit in.

Axes prime function is to deliver 5250 to a browser with zero interactive. It is a nice tool that uses a legitimate interface that IBM can't really stop without killing their own software - Unlike Fast/400 and others !

I only just saw Icebreak for the first time at COMMON - it is impressive and fast. Uses an .asp approach on the System i blending HTML with RPG much as RPGsp and RPS do. I like all of them because they are good tools with a great price point that exploit your RPG skills. Same goes for Asna's VRPG but I am far from convinced that they aren't focussed on moving my apps to the dark side.

MRC and WebSmart are higher in price but have a broader existing user base than the others. Again good products. WebSmart "feels" more like RPG but they can both incorporate your RPG routines.

Then there's Lansa which is kinda the Rolls Royce. Their latest product sounds interesting but I haven't seen it yet.

Most of the tools out there are good - the dross has fallen by the wayside. Mostly the choice is a question of the degree of support/stability you feel you need from the vendor, the price point you can tolerate, and where you think you are going in the future.

**JonBoy** · April 7, 2006, 11:25 AM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

Just to follow up.

IBM has announced price cuts on the WebFacing/HATS combination.

Through September 30, 2006, Big Blue will be offering 60% off of the base prices to entice the market into using this tool to bring applications to the Web. The reduced prices through the end of September 2006 are:

�?� P5 software tier: $2,000
�?� P10 software tier: $4,000
�?� P20 software tier: $4,800 per processor
�?� P30-P60 software tiers: $7,200 per processor
�?� Non-System i deployment: $10,000 per processor .....

Since this combination means you can deploy any 5250 app to a zero interactive box, it is quite an attractive price.

Of course you do have to run WebSphere.

**kpmac** · April 12, 2006, 02:44 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

Speaking of Lansa. Does anyone have experiance with this product. I would appreciate if you could provide some pro's and con's.

**mjhaston** · April 17, 2006, 02:07 PM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

One thing I forgot to mention was that I demo'd Profound Logic's Smart RPG pages and thought that was pretty slick. I think within 5 minutes I was able to turn a legacy program into a web app. It also was true HTML code on the front end, so you could maintain it with your HTML editor of choice going forward.

From what I remember it output a mixture of HTML and RPG code.

**pjk** · May 3, 2006, 09:23 AM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

My advice is to ditch RPG + any web facing all together and go with Linux and PHP instead. That's what we are doing now. Even though it's on an AS/400 partition now, if in the future we decide to go to another platform it will be easily ported. And it's a true web environment, so you'll have a lot more control over what your doing.

**JonBoy** · May 3, 2006, 10:56 AM

Re: Webfacing with Websphere

Originally posted by pjk

My advice is to ditch RPG + any web facing all together and go with Linux and PHP instead. That's what we are doing now. Even though it's on an AS/400 partition now, if in the future we decide to go to another platform it will be easily ported. And it's a true web environment, so you'll have a lot more control over what your doing.

But that does absolutely nothing to maintain the investment that the customer has in their software. You might as well say rewrite in C# and .Net or C++ or Java or Oracle or ....

The point of Webfacing (warts and all) is to provide a means to web enable _existing_ applications.

Ans why anyone would ever want to move away from System i is a complete mystery to me.

Announcement

Webfacing with Websphere

Webfacing with Websphere

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment